the problem with your reply, is that you're too new to this board to know who JohnVroom is. I don't know him personally, but from the hundreds, possibly thousands of posts I've read of his, and the obvious respect that he has on here from high level competitors, assures me that he knows his audio and then some. That coupled with photos of his previous installs dictates that he is more than capable of doing a "proper install" for whatever equipment he purchases. As such, the greater the level of equipment he uses, then the greater the possible sound quality. You are correct in your assumtion on install vs. speaker quality though...to a point. Ultimately, poor tonal quality in a poor driver can never be installed out...it's inherent in the driver regardless of install. As far as how much someone spends, that's what an audiophile board for car audio junkies is all about...going beyond what joe average will ever consider reasonable!

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2004 300M SPECIAL
Alpine CDA 9833
Alpine Pxa-h701
Alpine Rux-c701
Rockford fosgate p400-4
Rockford fosgate p4004
Hifonics BX 1205D
JBL c608 GTi
JBL p693
Infinity 2.5" center channel
Alpine type R 12"(2)
all active SQL set up with 1900 watts rms

Ok junk good point, I have certainly seen enough guys chasing their tails changing equipment willy nilly and the problem was several things: 1) a lack of patience, you have to tune these cars to overcome weaknesses in the automotive installation, 2) thinking a certain uber brand product (Scan speak, Hybrid, Dynaudio, Focal, etc) will solve all the problems 3) a weak or compromised install will never achieve what it could,


I do think installation is more important in most cars (especially cars that dont sound good from the factory) but if you have an optimized or non-optimized installation good gear will out perform poor gear, but I have to agree with Junks concept-if you know you are compromised and you throw thousands of dollars at equipment you may never know how good car audio can really sound.

My point on this thread was to identify 5 to 10 great drivers and opinions on why they were great. I have heard more than a few of them, and am still very interested in the Macrom (which I have never heard) and B&W (which I certainly have heard in home audio but never in a car). Comparing all these in a subjectively and objective correct way is near impossible but hey that is what dreaming about this stuff is all about.

We all want to achieve sonic nirvana in our cars but wouldn't it be great if we could do it on the cheep...

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MECA SQ

www.cardomain.com/memberpage/769882

I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce.

Dukk..... I'll PM you and I'll explain off line....... dumbazz. Oh, and your response is as stupid-er as is mine...... I guess Things don't change I see. I was generalizing and not speaking within the realm of a competitor such as John who tests and optimizes........ ok, my bad, I should have better explained ............ but I'm 40 now....... I just expect everyone understands what I'm saying.......... automatically

Wrong and wrong.


Thanks JohnVroom, as that's sort of where I was heading but maybe didn't clearly explain it so well. The tricky part is that some really good drivers will just not work or work well in some cars, regardless of the "other" factors (install, etc). Nothing is jumping to mind specifically as an example but I have seen/heard it happen. That's were experience comes into play and where the consumer can be *burnt* into buying something they don't need if they are not careful.

I remember once playing with a DLS Iridium 8" in a kickpanel of an X5. Could not get it to do what it was suppost to do............. that we had actually heard it do in another car. We never got around to solving it but speculation said it had something to do with the big bulky centre console and trapping the lower frequency spectrum in the footwell............ although I'm still not sold on that explanation. Would have been fun to spend the time to continue testing it out and to have solved that puzzle. But the project expired........... when my wife took the X5 away from me for it's rightful use as a family transporter

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Tom
Vehicle Under Construction - Due Date = Unknown

^ HEY! You didn't esplain yourself dood. And you're here all in-cog-neato too...lookin like a noob ripe for the roasting. wayyyyy too tempting. you know I couldn't let it slide. That's a DaveO kind of trick..

You win man - you suckered both John and me it appears. Bravo.

jackass..

For those out of the loop - let's all wave hi to Tom..

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Paul Niwranski
1966 Cadillac Superior Crown Royale Limousine Hearse

If you're mirrors ain't shakin...you got taken...
RIP Member #8
Be careful what you wish for...

Fun to be back. Hopefully I'll remember to git on here and post like mad.......... like the ole days. Gotta email Adam Hale to get back here for a cheap shot or two as well. I'm still trying to scam his F1 off his punk azz .......... but he won't let go!!!

Anyways, sorry about taking this OT.

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Tom
Vehicle Under Construction - Due Date = Unknown

I absolutly love my HAT L8's, they are the absolute best I have ever heard.. and I have heard many! once the truck is finished I will be glad to give anyone a listen! especially Brandon "The Focal Man" although he is not on here much anymore.

I used the dls irridium 831 set, and that 8 was absolute garbage! slow, sloppy, not accurate, shittiest mid bass ever, especially for the $

^ I was getting that feeling as well at times playing with that DLS driver. But as mentioned, we did get it to work elsewhere........... barely. So I'm not 100% sure if it's the driver, the environment or a combo of both. Actually that Iridium 8.3 set is cheapo $$$ wise for what it is.......... but that being said their 6.5" is much better then that 8". But DLS is not ultra high end as what's being discussed here............ so the point is mute...........

This discussion is actually rather timely for me as well.......... as of last weekend I gutted the back end of the truck to start a build. So I'm interested in the midbass discussion as it was a problem last time too. I got the X5 back as the wife bought a new vehicle as few weeks ago. And the stock system is absolutely HORRIBLE. So out it goes. I have to drop Scott Buwalda a message this week................. hmmmmmmmmm.

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Tom
Vehicle Under Construction - Due Date = Unknown

Who makes that DLS driver Scan speak or Usher?

Hybrids 8 is nice

The JBL 2118 is sonically similar to the Hybrid 4" but with more extension and A LOT more volume

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MECA SQ

www.cardomain.com/memberpage/769882

I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce.

I have Diamond Audio Hex all around (tweets, 5.25, 6.5, and TDX 12inch sub). I didn't see these speakers mentioned in this thread anywhere but in case you were thinking of them I would not recommend them for mid-base driver application.

Don't get me wrong my 6.5 Hex (set at 65 - 400 range getting 200 watts per side bridged from a zapco digital amp) have great sq but just don't have the output I would like. My doors are dynomatted and I've done all I could to get the most out these speakers. They sound great but are missing something to put them into the "next level".

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ECLIPSE H/U - ZAPCO DIGITAL SERIES AMPS - DIAMOND AUDIO HEX/TDX SPEAKERS/SUB